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Had another great week last week on the TFF but did catch way too many Smallmouth Bass. I just talked to some friends who are on the Minaqua Chain and that's what they have been catching instead of walleyes also. Anyone have any info on why so many smallmouth bass?
There is an article in the Lakeland Times about that issue....
http://www.lakelandtimes.com/main.as...rticleID=13681
Its become apparent that walleyes not "king" anymore.While thats a shame its just the natural change of a fishery.Maybe time to attract those southern bass fishermen? Pound for pound smallies fight better then largies. Maybe some national bass fishing show could do a show or two about the battling smallies of northern Wisconsin?Moneys still green regardless of the species!Just a thought from a northern Wi lover! God Bless the U.S. Bob S.
the reason is because the tree huggers at the dnr dont know how to catch a walleye so they over protect the smallies. they should remove the size limit and open smallmouth season when they open walleye and put the bag limit to 5. it allways makes me wonder how my hooks get majically hooked in their gills and the eagles end up eating them.
Not often you here people complain about catching too many fish (except rock bass) but... it seems to me that the walleye fishing on the flowage this year is as good as its been this far into the summer, and there happens to be a lot of harvest on the walleye and nobody takes out the bass. Put 2 and 2 together and you end up catching more bass.
2 very simple solutions: keep and eat the bass you catch, OR if you're catching a lot of bass in a spot, move. I don't know how many times I've had to move from spot to spot catching bass before I finally found the spot or pattern for walleyes and then that's all you catch from there on out. Bass are more aggressive so they're easy to catch, sometimes you gotta work for the walleyes.
I believe the problem started 8 to 9 years ago when the DNR went to catch and release on Bass till 6-21, LGR mouth love walleye fry (don't know about smallies)and it has shown up more often than not. I fish Fisher Lake, TFF and the Chip often, 8 years ago I would catch Walleyes on Fisher almost at will,, the DNR tried stocking with FRY and in the Fall there were no young of the year found by electro shocking, I believe the Chip has the same problem ( no young of the year, last year) Its a shame the DNR is trying to take all the toothy critters out of our waters. Just my opinion.
I alerted the TIP hot line to your post. Wanton wasting of our wildlife is a crime, bragging about in a forum is stupid. Rules apply to everyone, please respect the resource.Quote:
Originally Posted by ebsmith
apparently you cant catch a walleye either, guess you are ok with the demize of the walleyes, thank you dudley dooright. If I eat it or the eagles eat it or I put it in my garden for bigger tomatoes it is still gone. my point was to stop over protecting them.
time for some smalleye busting
The article on this thread is interesting. I would seem logical climate change could cause a change in spawning habits of fish since spawning is controlled by temperature, available sunlight, and the moon/sun phases. Since folks can not even agree if there is such a thing as climate change (natural or man-made) I guess the only thing that can be done is to attempt to manipulate nature by changing bag and size limits of various species in an attempt to find a balance.
That being said I did catch considerably more small mouth bass than walleye this year on the flowage. Most of the small mouth were 15 inches or under, but I did have a few 18 and one 20 inch fish. The 20 incher was hooked too deep to allow a survivable release so I kept it for dinner. My wife and I ate the small mouth along with some walleye fillets. I thought the small mouth was good, almost as good as the walleye, but my wife actually liked the small mouth better for taste. I guess next year I will try to keep more 15+ inch small mouths and refrain from keeping walleyes under 14 inches to do my part.
I also agree that it is poor planet manners to waste a resource so please either eat the legal sized small mouths, release them for perhaps later trophy fishing, or even bury them in your garden but do not kill them on purpose to feed to the birds. The birds are supposed to be obtaining their prey naturally and they need to teach their young the methods. If the birds get used to being fed dead or dying fish by humans what will happen if the humans are not around to feed them?
Tight Lines
Very poor recruitment happening on the chain. Besides, the environment on that chain is drastically changing due to environmental and man-made factors: Warmer water temperatures, too many nitrates & nasty stuff draining in, shoreline development and removal of original habitat required for YOY survival.. You get the idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by justbob
Can't say that the bass are being overprotected. Healthy fisheries happen for a reason, and that is because of common sense.
To answer the original question; Blame overfishing. In addition, certain anglers need to quit keeping every single legal walleye (the spawners) they catch. Simple.
But if fish aren't being caught, maybe it's time for fishermen to start thinking outside of the box? Try new techniques that maybe fish haven't seen? Put the jigs and live bait away?
I've been observing that out of 8 every 10 boats seen at Fisherman's Landing at least 8 of them are probably after walleyes. Of the two remaining, I'm one of them who fishes for bass and is happy. :)
The only things you pointed out to me are your ignorance of the laws, your total lack of respect for the resource, and your inability to form a complete and grammatically correct sentence.Quote:
Originally Posted by ebsmith
The worst thing for the flowage is to have self serving idiots appoint themselves as stewards of the resource and then make up their own rules in an attempt to achieve their personal conclusions..
I encourage everyone to obey the laws and respect the resource. Compliance is essential if regulations are to have a chance of producing the results they are designed to achieve.
It is too bad walleyes are perceived to be on the decline, but your actions will not help. This situation is too complicated for armchair biologists and scofflaws to solve.
The TFF does not need selfish fools who think they are above the laws and smarter than the DNR. Do the TFF a favor and take your attitudes and illegal actions somewhere else.
It would appear that ebsmith would be better served in this world as a toolbox. I'll be up the weekend of the 9th. I plan to enjoy every smallmouth I catch. Then return each unharmed to be enjoyed by another. I don't understand some folks up there. You live in what I call paradise. Yet all I hear(not from everybody, just a select few) is nothing but bitchin about native Americans or the lack of walleyes. When I Read this forum, It would appear that the walleye fishin is doin' fine. Cry me a river.."I caught too many bass"...rediculous. Try out the rat race in Illinois. Then whine about too many smallmouth bass. I think a swift kick in the marbles might be in order.(not really, take it easy)
Smallmouth bass generated a mixed reaction from participating stakeholders, though 71% characterized their interest in the smallmouth bass fishery as moderate or high (Table A1). Some participants who did not care for smallmouth bass initially feared that smallmouths ate or competed for food with walleyes to the detriment of the walleye population. Some of those fears were allayed after discussion about known interactions between these species. Subsequent goals and objectives were developed based upon a majority view that smallmouth bass probably have not adversely affected the walleye fishery in the Turtle-Flambeau Flowage (or many other places for that matter). A bias for size over number of smallmouths is reflected in the objectives, and management strategies should acknowledge the relatively strong tendency among a majority of Flowage stakeholders to catch and release smallmouth bass.
This was from fish biologist Jeff Roth.
"We do have 'some' evidence that bass may have an effect on walleye recruitment," Kubisiak said. "It's not a two- or three-year swing, it's going to take longer. It took us about a decade to get where we are now, which is about what we are looking for to turn this around. You're looking at the lifespan of a fish when you are looking at changes."
This was from the article.
Seems to me the "stewards" have some conflicting info.
It also seems funny that as stated in the article they were going to drop the size limit on the smallies, isnt that what I wanted? if you chose to believe in the government (since they never do us wrong) go ahead!
As a person who has fished the TFF since 1960, I do have some opinions on the walleye/smbass issue. From 1960 through the 1980's, we didn't catch smallies. In fact, in about 1981 or 1982 my brother-in-law caught a 14.5" smallie and he had it mounted! Think about that! That's how rare a good smallie was.
We started catching smallies in numbers around 1990 or 1991, only a few years after the start of indian walleye spearing. I believe the connection is too much of a coincidence. There is a popular and somewhat fameous TFF guide who agrees with me and actually believes the DNR started stocking smbass secretly because they knew the walleye population was going to be hurt and another game fish would be needed. I have no idea about the truth or validity of this, but he told this to my son.
What I do know is this. I stumbled upon a rock bar in the late 60's. It is a great spot and still does not show up on any TFF maps. (Makes me wonder about the accuracy of all these GPS maps when this spot, which is pretty large, never gets picked up.) Anyway, for decades all we ever caught on this bar was walleyes and nice, solid large walleyes. Mid twenties were not, and still are not at all uncommon. We have a traveling trophy that goes to the person catching the largest walleye of our spring trip, and many years that fish is caught on that rock bar. The problem is there are nights where we catch more smallies than walleyes. Sometimes only smallies. Never caught anything but walleyes on that spot for 20+ years and now, some nights we catch only smbass instead.
Have smallies taken over? No, as we still catch a lot of walleyes. Have smallies found a substantial niche, and possible had an adverse effect on the walleye population? I believe the answer to that question is yes.
I have information from the DNR that dates back to the pre-spearing days and the present walleye population is considerably lower than what is listed in the literature I have from the 80's. I also have the early years spearing totals and they are no joke.
Hello , we have been coming up to the TFF since the 60's too . I would agree with DonH about the Walleyes and it's decrease since the late 80's early 90's . In the number of fish and the average size of them too . As for the Smallmouth Bass we never caught them before the 90's . I remember the first one I caught and could not believe it , and it was only one fish a year or so for a few years too . My family would fish out of two boats , different places , etc. and it was the same . I remember someone who has been on the flowage since it was flooded ( is pasted away now ) telling me there were Largemouth Bass present early on ( though we never caught one on all the years we have been going there ) but never mentioned Smallmouth Bass. In fact I was told that Lake Bastine was full of Lilly Pads on the shores at one time .
Hello Mike, I really like your attitude on the thread you posted 8-22-11 .......... Yes indeed, the area is a paradise. You sound sensible and we need more people like you on our lakes and Flowages. Catch, release and enjoy the recources we have. I think the great fishing we have now won't last forever. Change is one thing that never changes !!! Keep up the good posting and let's hope we have less squabbling. Kind Regards, The Old frog caster ......... Larry F.
Thank you all for posting info on this. I wasn't complaining about smallmouth, just wondering why. I do keep every legal one I catch because we like to eat them. I came from an area that smallmouth was the main fishery. I just hate to see the decline in Walleye.
As a bass fisherman, I have fished some of the great bass lakes in California. But to me, I would rather be fishing Vilas County smallmouth. I think right now the smallmouth fishing is world class. Right now they are abundant and will bite just about anything when you find them. I hope this continues. But, I understand most boats on the chains are walleye guys. That is why I love fishing for smallies. There just isn't a lot of competition.
Fishing has come along way too. I agree that smallies and walleyes compete with each other. There are lakes where walleyes have been introduced where they have decimated the forage base. Pine lake is a prime example but ask the lake residents and they blame the muskies. Angling harvest is just as much to blame. Better techniques, better equiptment. We can't do what our fathers and grandfathers did.
ebsmith, you should be ashamed. Your a poacher, not a fisherman.
Thanks 'caster. I only get up there once, sometimes(if I'm lucky, like this year) twice a year. Usually for a very short weekend. I've been vacationing up there since I can remember. It's my favorite place on earth, by far. I think about it year round. I was born and raised in a suburb of Chicago, Crystal Lake. It's where I still live and, still struggle to make a living. With the resources/money to move my life up there I would do it in a heartbeat. Ya know, "the grass is always greener". To read that some people may kill certain fish, only because they're ignorant. Breaks my heart. Just goes to show you that there's stupid people everywhere. Great last thought by you too, ToddM. You nailed it. PS.. I eat some fish too. Legal limits. And by the way, The northern taste great.
pps...JustBob, I know you were just inquiring. I meant no offense to you. I was responding to others responses.
As several have said - enjoy the lake for what it's offering. Many factors impact the survival of different species including, no doubt - the spearing of adult spawning walleyes every spring. A couple things are certain:
- Killing one healthy game fish does nothing to help other game fish
- If you're going to have a fish "replace" walleye as the dominant game fish, if that's even happened, you could have far worse than small mouth
- Lakes change as they age TFF has a great smallie/walleye mix. You can be sure in 10 years it will be different from now.
Enjoy it for what it is, a beautiful great fishing lake. Learning to do that will help you enjoy it as it continues to change. Killing fish out of spite or misguided fish management is bad JUJU.
I don't think bass are the problem for the walleye. Everything from musky to bluegill like fry no matter what flavor it comes in from crappie fry to northerns. Being a flowage means there has always been a population of smallmouth do to the native stream population. As I see it as the flowage ages and more rock and gravel is exposed do to wave action etc. and the shallows get more and more weeds, both bass population should grow. Then if you take in to consideration the spearing and the heavy pressure on the walleyes.....Smallies will start filling in the niches with there own population. Not sure if its the same but walleye and smallmouth seem to do well in other bodies of water ie. Erie Lake of the Woods Mille Lacs.
Lets face it Bass all over northern Wisconsin have boomed both largemouth and smallmouth.First off lets not forget that years upon many years ago most of our lakes were Bass lakes not walleye lakes.So Bass were really natures choice for this area.Now a lake can only produce so many fish per acre.Its no surprise to me that since spearing Bass have boomed really taking off once they got a new footing.Here's the reason.Spearing takes a lot of pounds per acre out in a short period of time and add that to the spring fishing take and you have a lot of pounds per acre of Walleye removed thus a void to be filled.With size limits and catch and release seasons Bass seem to have taken advantage of this void and moved in.I really see no solution to this as if you do something to lower the Bass population another fish will just move into that void and it just might be a fish no one wants like snake northerns.Until the powers that rule our resources wake up and stop the damage of spearing the walleye will continue under pressure all across northern Wisconsin.
im heading up to TFF for the first time ever and i would love to help you all out. If you guys could help me find some spots on the flowage to catch these smallies, i would be more than happy to eat them. Thanks a lot