Netting Case

[duckiller2]

The tribe lowered the restitution from 15,000 down to 3,000 and lowered the lifetime loss of license to 1 year. Also gave the Jensens in Garden 25,000 to hire lawyers to fight in state court on their case. Not a good outcome for the sportsman in the Bays DeNoc.

[Capt. Keith Wils]

Until everyone starts boycotting the 5 Kewadin Casinos in the U.P. this stuff will never change.
Until all the different sportsmans groups in the state of Michigan start demanding that what some of the tribal memebers are doing is more than just there heritage nothing will change.

[grubworm]

This is a bunch of crap! So by next winter they will be doing the same damn thing!!!

[outdoorguy]

I will never set foot in the casino again !

[baits_well]

you people are idiots. do you really think boycotting casinos is going really going to do ANYTHING?? Newsflash! I'm a tribal member, and guess what! I don't get any money from our tribe. AND, just because a select group of "wannabe indians" get caught violating tribal rights, doesn't mean EVERY tribal member does it. I agree, it's bs that they're getting fines reduced. As one of thousands of tribal members (which is unheard of in any tribe) i am very pissed off. Just remember this before you start "boycotting" casinos- the REAL native american's don't abuse tribal rights, REAL native americans respect the way of life of mother nature. But i guess you guys already knew that hey!?!

[Capt. Keith Wils]

To baits well,
Who pays the tribal Judges and the Tribal Council Members? I am willing to bet that the profits from the casinos pays in some way more than just the employies of the casinos. Until there is some pressure put on the tribal council to fine these law breakers with some fines that will make them think twice about selling fish nothing will change.

[phisherman]

Careful fellas ... I tried to discuss this subject earlier this week and the thread disappeared and I got a scolding!!!!!

[duckiller2]

Ya but Chris doesn't like you HAHAHA just kidding Just happen to post what showed up in the daily depressed (I mean press)

[RudyG]

I think many folks are having trouble distinguishing between a good discussion/debate.. and plain ol' "Common Courtesy" thus, breaking the rules. This subject isnt off limits.. its the name calling, racial slurs, stereotyping, and finger pointing.

Lets face it.. starting a thread off with "You people are Idiots", tends to close eyes, and ears, to an otherwise very good point.

Also, make sure when you are refering to a group.. it would be good to be sure others hear you say, or see, the words "some" and "select", because it isnt all.. and if it takes a boycott to get tribal leaders attention and have them hear the sportsmen and women of this state.. regardless of what tribe, family, or clan, we are from.. then maybe that is what needs to be done. We need to work together on this issue.. not blame each other and point fingers. Remember.. many of your neighbors, regardless of race, also make a living from those casino's.

Just things to ponder

[DooFighter]

Boycotting casinos will probably not touch the poachers a bit. But it might make some feel better, so go for it! What REALLY needs to happen is the law abiding stand-up tribe members need to speak up, like baitswell, and tell the tribe to reign in these losers, they are giving the tribe a black eye. I think it is unlikely this will happen, though as evidenced by this penalty reduction. There seems to be a prevailing attitude of stick it to whitey at any cost and by any means possible.

[camo]

I am all for boycotting the Casinos. I've been doing for years. How but setting up a rally out in front of the Casinos to protest this slap on the wrist for these losers. Pick a night when they have a big concert or something and just make life miserable for the Casino. Maybe then they will put a little pressure on their courts to start doing what is right. Maybe they can even put some pressure on their people to stop this crap all together. Sitting here preaching to the choir doesn't seem to get the job done. Hit em where it hurts, their wallet!

[crazyeyes]

A rally isn't a bad idea...it's something that increases our visibility and voice. It's something that others will notice, maybe more so than a brief article in the daily press. It's not a solution, but it's something.

Can we make some big signs, hook the boats up, and park at the casino along the highway? Do we have that right?

[camo]

we could fill up the parking lots early with trucks and boats and have one big tailgate party there.

[fishmaster]

Maybe someone should forward this to the Walleye Tourney directors also, don't they have all of the awards nights and stuff out at the casino? And while we are at how about sending it to the Delta Chamber of Commerece and the Delta Vistitors and Conv. group, they have all of thier events out there--and the casino isn't even in Delta county!!!! We have plenty of places here in the county that can hold these events...all owned by people who support the sportsman and the local groups!!!!

[wyldstallion906]

whoa fellas hold on a second. Before we go lighting the torches and all that other good stuff lets not fail to realize that if you choose to go after the casino, make sure it is the casino that is supporting these guys. The casino in Manistique is the one they are associated with, not the one out in Harris. The Island casino helps out alot of causes in delta county and should not have to take any of the blame for this stuff. Different tribe with different people. I am all for the ideas mentioned, I just want to make sure that everyone knows where to direct their efforts towards. And for the record I think all of this is complete B.S. and these guys are getting off way way way to easy. If I caught a walleye that was 14.5 inches in season, I'd have to pay a bigger fine and my license would be revoked for longer i'm sure. CrankYanker would get the chair for the same offense right crank? hehe

[CrankYanker]

Got that right stallion, I hate catching short fish and just having them in my hand to unhook them in fear of citations......

[camo]

I don't think the matter is about distinguishing between which Casino has good Indians and which one has bad ones. It is about getting them all to pressure the tribe to stop all of this. I think you pick the Casino that gets the most traffic and do it their. I think the illegal netters where bad and so are the tribal courts. However, I also think the people who are gill netting right now and the people throwing spears are all hurting the fishery. If the want special privileges for subsistence, let them fish them with a pole year round, not with nets and spears while they are spawning. I find it hard to believe that nobody from the Harris Casino is exercising their right to rape the lakes.

[DooFighter]

whoa fellas hold on a second. Before we go lighting the torches and all that other good stuff lets not fail to realize that if you choose to go after the casino, make sure it is the casino that is supporting these guys. The casino in Manistique is the one they are associated with, not the one out in Harris. The Island casino helps out alot of causes in delta county and should not have to take any of the blame for this stuff. Different tribe with different people. I am all for the ideas mentioned, I just want to make sure that everyone knows where to direct their efforts towards. And for the record I think all of this is complete B.S. and these guys are getting off way way way to easy...

What he said.

Fwiw, camo I think you're on a slippery slope there. If you were harrassed by an officer of the Esc PD, just as an example, would you protest at the state police post? They're both cops, right?

The sault Chippewa is the tribe letting these guys off scot free.

[camo]

Doofighter- I thought you were the one who started advocating for the boycott. In regards to the police question, it would be just me who was affected. where would a big protest come in? Netting affects all of the public, even the Indians. That said I would not buy a ticket to the policeman's ball. If its only the court in the Sault that is the problem, why don't they try them in the court in Harris? Oh, I forgot they don't have one their. If the Island Resort starts getting pressured by sportsmen and women, they in turn will have to pressure their tribal courts.

[duckiller2]

Hannaville does NOT have off reservation treaty rights. Protest should be towards the ones who have done wrong and thoose who help them get away with it. Manistque would be the place right? Just my 2 cents.

[crazyeyes]

ok tailgate party I'm in, name the place and time...

[outdoorguy]

I'm all for a public display of our discontent with the Tribal relaxing of penalties for those found GUILTY.
Not sure about legal issues involved with Casino ( tribal lands) Does anyone know of legal demontrations on tribal lands ???
Sure would be nice to have 100 + Boats parked in the lot demonstrating. News media present of course.

[YooperTroll]

To baits well,
Who pays the tribal Judges and the Tribal Council Members? I am willing to bet that the profits from the casinos pays in some way more than just the employies of the casinos. Until there is some pressure put on the tribal council to fine these law breakers with some fines that will make them think twice about selling fish nothing will change.

I would assume (key word here, assume) that tribal authorities could kick anyone off their property just like any other property owner could. So the short answer is yes, they could squash any protest on their property (I think). But it's a bit more delicate politically for them to do so if the folks protesting are being peaceful and not blocking access to the biz.

[lilnoc]

Any type of illegal fishing effects the overall outcome to the fishery that has been hurt badly in the past few years. I travel throughout this beautiful state we call Michigan, and I've heard stories from people everywere that the Bays De Noc fishery is no longer the fishery that it once was. Setting an example to these gross vialators is only a start in it's recovery. Wonderful stories of fish being put back into the bay only works if we all follow the rules. Fines these people are recieving only scratch the surface in what is happening to the community. Fewer fish mean a weaker economy, Resorts in the area must be cringing. PLEASE, this cannot happen again, these people aren't fisherman they are thiefs and thiefs to every fisherman, resort owner, restauranteer, store owner, and even casinos. These were grown men knowing what they were doing, if found guilty people who violate State laws to this degree get life sentences to fish. These is my thoughts, looking forward to fish early and often on the Bay!

[Esky Moe]

Everyone should pay attention to Fishmasters suggestion about contacting the Tourney and let them know as well as the Delta County Chamber of Commerce. You mean we can hold the functions in one of our facilities?
I like the way you think Fishmaster. Wonder how we get this organized?

[crazyeyes]

No they don't have any walleye tournament award stuff out at the casino, that I'm aware of anyway. It's all usually at the weigh-in site, which typically is Escanaba or Gladstone harbor areas. The MWS has had banquet(s) at the Terrance. The MWC/NTC weigh in will be at the fairgrounds this August.

[wyldstallion906]

Ok guys again I will try to make the point that if you go after the island casino you are going after the wrong people. The people that are guilty are from the sault tribe. The casino in manistique is the one that supports them. This is not a hard concept to grasp. I don't personally know the guys from rapid river but I have met the 2 brothers from fairport and they are absolute morons. They dont know how to read or write and the only thing they have ever done is commercial fishing. They have to revoke their rights for life and enforce it because they will continue to do this regardless of the outcome of any trial or anything. And again I cannot stress enough how going after a casino or tribe that has nothing to do with these morons will be completely useless. The Island casino helps out delta county alot, unlike the manistique casino. So please direct your efforts towards the right people if you want things to change.

[crazyeyes]

I would agree with you there stallion. I wasn't really interested in "going after" the casinos or anything, just wanted some good ol sportsman advocacy in some form.

[Fishfinder2010]

I have heard for years that a few subsistence fishermen have freezers full of fish and sell them out of their garage. I also suspect that the local small bars are buying this illegal fish to save a couple of bucks. My boycott is that I refuse to eat fish in any bar/restaurant that i think is buying these illegal fish.

[LundBoats18]

Yes you are exactly right. I know a few of them guys that go over to LBDN and rape the Bay. Its pathetic. I wish they would get busted for keeping over their limit or for selling. It makes a sportsman like me sick!

[baits_well]

http://www.saulttribe.com/index.php?...406&Itemid=592

read if you have time, i am thoroughly just as disgusted as you guys are. i just thought i would share with you guys what my tribal rights entitle me. Do i take advantage of them, not so much.

[wyldstallion906]

Thank you baits well for providing that link to the tribal fishing info. On behalf of me and at least the people that I know personally and my family thank you for not being like the people that are involved in this whole illegal netting operation. I am not a native but I have friends that are and I know that most respectful natives dont act this way, just like most respectful other people dont break the law when it comes to poaching or snagging etc etc etc.. It would be completely naive and moronic for us to blame every native for what these select few idiots are doing. We gun owners dont like being blamed for what criminals do with guns right? I know that when someone shoots someone during a robbery, i dont want to be considered like them just because I have guns. This is basically the same scenario. People are going up in arms over this and blaming everyone in every single tribe for what a few dumb and i do mean dumb people are doing. Can we please be smart and continue to be smart about this and keep the blame on the people that we know have done the criminal acts? Because to me it seems like if we can agree with respectful native fisherman that this illegal netting is wrong then that empowers us all more and brings us together to stop the people that are truly destroying our beloved fishing. I know that was more than my 2 cents worth but it need to be said..

[mudpuppy]

Did I really just read that everyone should stop going to bars and restaurants if you THINK they are buying fish from native americans? I have to believe that these are pretty big assumptions.. It's funny that people on this site also say that the netting has ruined the economy and ironically these same people say to ban local restaurants and bars.. IGNORANT