Battery Charging

[ttabaleulb]

Ok, this is starting to bug the crap out of me. I run a 12V battery for my trolling motor separate from my outboard/sonar. I take this battery out after each trip and charge it. initially, it would read at about 70% and charge to 100%. Over the last couple of months, it started showing anywhere from 20-50% and only charges to 75% max!! This is all done using the "fast charge" mode on the charger. Now, the battery that runs the outboard/sonar always charges from about 75-80 up to 100% everytime. Is the trolling battery starting to degrade, or am I missing something?? I have tried cleaning the posts on the battery with no benefit.

[Red Childress]

My battery guy told me a slower charge will increase the amount of stored energy when compared to the "quick charge". If that does not fix the problem, then it is time for a new battery. A series 27 will work but preferably a series 31 if you have the space.

[H2O wolf]

I have also heard to charge the batteries at a slow charge. Also take into consideration how old the charger is and will it automatically shut off or maintain the batteries when they are charged. I also have a 12V system but often run 2 batteries just for the TM. I picked up a new charger and 2 new AGM batteries last year. I was told to let them get down to about 50 percent and then do a slow charge.

[ttabaleulb]

Thanks guys. I'll try the slow charge. Otherwise, I might have to look into upgrading my Walmart special battery!!

[Trooper]

If your looking for a good battery at a damn good price. Summit Racing has Optima Blue top Group 31 part ULT-9052-161. There currently going for $175shipped to the door and also there is a $25.00 rebate from Optima. The same battery at your local zone or moutain stores sell for 249.00.

[Muskiekid]

You didn't say how old the batteries are and what kind of charger you are using. I fished electric-only lakes for a long time. Here's what I've discovered about 12 volt batteries and motors (I threw them in) I've used:

12 volt batteries usually last about three years. You will see a definite difference in them that last year. 12 volt motors (I trolled with them) also last about three years if you run them constantly. This is due to the wiring that is not as heavy as the larger 24 & 36 volt motors. If you don't add water to most batteries, it will shorten their life.

Battery Chargers (the type you charge your vehicle with that has the deep cycle marine 10 amp and 2 amp settings): these will charge your batteries to max and then cut off and run at a 2 amp "trickle charge." Although they have "automatic cut-offs", they never cut off at the 2 amp charge. If you don't cut them off, you may hear the water in them boiling. This destroys the plates in your batteries.

On board chargers: you charge your batteries separately and the system monitors them to keep them balanced. They charge to max - then cut off. They are then (again) monitored and when the charge drops to 90% of max, they will (again) be charged to max (and so on) and then cut off again. This results in longer life (not as much water loss) and longer battery life. These are well worth the investment. I used Guest and Bass Pro (made by Guest, I think) and have been quite happy with them. I left them hooked (including the entire winter) up to the batteries all of the time when the batteries were not being used with the motors.

Batteries: most are not really "maintenance-free" and need water added occasionaly. If there are ports that you can open and see the water - they are NOT really maintenance free and you must add water (distilled is best because it won't corode your batteries because they don't have the minerils in them that hurt your batteries). The Sears Die Hard Marine Batteries are a perfect example of this. They are advertised as "maintenance-free" (giving the angler the impression that the batteries are sealed and never need water) and are NOT. Marine batteries should be charged after every use.

Using mutliple 12 volt batteries (one at a time) with a 12 volt motor: Many anglers use a 12 volt motor with a back-up battery. Once the first battery goes dead, they then hook up the second battery and use it. To get MORE lasting time out of the batteries, you can hook the batteries together (pos to pos & neg to neg) and you will get more time out of them . Kind of like saying 1 plus 1 equals 2 1/2.

Repairs to 12 volt motors: if you can do it yourself - they may be worth repairing and you can find the parts online. If you pay someone else to do it, generally-speaking, you might as well purchase a new motor due to the high costs of repairing them.

24 and 36 (and bigger) electric motors: Good investment. More power, heavier wiring and last much longer than 12 volt motors. Running a more powerful electric at slow speeds does not take the toll on a motor as running a 12 volt motor at max speed. I believe you should purchase the largest electric motor you can afford. Although some people (probably most people) suggest not purchasing an extended warranty for your motors - I recommend it for the 24 volt and 36 volt motors (the warranty paid for itself for me on many different motors) and no extended warranty for a 12 volt motor.

I prefer Motorguide motors for the bow and Minkotta Vantage for the back. I run/ran size 31 batteries on them. Much more power than the 27s. Of course a Ray ($5000) motor with 6 volt (golf-cart) batteries (another story) is the cat's meow for electric lake fishing. Faster and longer lasting! FYI: I talked to a factory repairman a few years ago that worked on Motorguides AND Minkottas. He felt than Minkottas are a better motor.

This was more than you asked for, but I thought it would be of value to some people.

[ttabaleulb]

Thats some great information!!

The battery that I am having issues with was purchased last Fall. The charger I bought was a "standard" charger from Sears with automatic shut-off, also purchased last Fall. I have not done a slow charge on this battery since I have owned it. I usually run the charger while I am in the garage sharpening hooks or doing other things with the gear. It has never been for an extended period (30 min.+) of time.

When I first bought the setup, the battery would recharge (Quick Charge) from ~70 to 100% in maybe 10-15 minutes. Now, its showing 20% after a few hours of use and only getting to around 70%. To be honest, I do not use the trolling motor as much as I should while fishing and this has baffled me. The battery holder that I have under the front deck of my boat is sized to fit a "regular" 12V battery housing. So, my options are limited as to what I can upgrade to.

My trolling motor is an older 40# Minnkota transom mount that I run from the bow that came with the boat. I am sure that my setup is not the most efficient, but I am just trying to figure out why the loss of charge. The battery that runs the Outboard/Sonar and came with the boat seems to be just fine. Could be that I just bought a piece of crap battery! LOL

I'll try the slow charge this week and see where that leaves me. Thanks again for all the great info guys!!!!


Jay

[Muskiekid]

I was reading my post and I would like to clarify one thing: when the charger on automatic goes to the 2 amp charge, it continues to charge and not shut off.

When I first started fishing electric lakes, I charged my batteries just like you: on an "automobile type charge" with the marine setting. I too, used Sears Die-Hard Deep Cycle batteries. The salesmen claimed that these batteries are maintenance-free. They are not because there is a way to put water in the batteries. These batteries WILL lose their ability to hold a charge over the next couple of years whether you use them or not.



From what you say here are a couple of possiblities for you:

1. putting distilled water in them?
2. they should be kept charged all of the time. Keeping them hook up all the time will result in them being charged all the time. You cannot do this on an auto charger. You can purchase onboard chargers for one battery. Just use it in your garage (or where you would use it) instead of your boat. It will extend your battery life.

Auto chargers: I had several over the years. They too have wiring in them that may not last and their charge% dials may not be accurate. If you use them constantly, sometimes they will not last either. I used Schumachers and went thru several over them in a ten year period.

Onboard chargers: The Bass Pro or Cabelas chargers (I think) are guest chargers. I have those and Guest chargers. They are very good and last a lot longer than the auto chargers.

Die Hard batteries: I have had several that stopped holding a charge immediately. They were defective. Take the battery back to the store and have them check it. If their machine indicates a problem - they should give you a new battery for free. I believe Die-Hards have a three year warranty.

One other option: you are using marine batteries, right?

Hope this helps. No expert here, but I fishing electric-only and found out a lot about batteries from using them. There are also forums around about electric boat fishing that have similar info on them.

[Red Childress]

I have a 2-bank Guest charger and have had no problems. Sure is nice leaving it plugged in all the time.

[ttabaleulb]

Alright, I have to admit that I am a complete idiot when it comes to this stuff. Remember, I just bought this as my first boat last Fall, so I am like an infant in terms of this battery stuff. LOL Yes, I do have marine batteries. I appreciate any and all information that you guys are willing to share.

Questions I have are below:

1) What does 2-bank mean??

2) Is an on-board charger the only way to go? Will the slow charge not help using the charger that I have?

3) Are the "alligator" clips a good enough connection for repeated charges.

4) I notice that the ground connection starts to get warm after a while during the charge. I did not notice that early on. Is that normal?

I hate to bug you guys with this crap (I'd rather be talkin Musky), but I just want to be sure that I'll be able to get around on the lake the next time I'm out. I'll also search for some of those forums. Thanks again for the help.


Jay

[muskie52]

Jay,

1. The number of banks is the number of batteries that it can charge at one time. Those that use a 24 volt system (2 batteries) would use a 2 bank charger. A 36 volt (3 batteries) would need a 3 bank charger.

2. An on board charger isn't necessary, but it sure is nice to have! When you get home from a day on the water, just plug it in and forget about it until the next time you take the boat out. As far as I know, you can't "overcharge" batteries with any on board charger. After charging the batteries to full, it shuts off and only kicks back on after your batteries lose 10% of their charge.

3. The alligator clips should give you no problem with charging.

4. Not sure.....when I use my portable charger, it too gets warm. I think this is normal.

Don't worry about asking questions. We all can learn from them. I got my first boat about 9 years ago and I am still learning some things!!!

Tony

[ttabaleulb]

Well, I charged the battery to 90% this evening. Thats the highest I have seen it in quite a while. I used a combination of the "slow" and "fast" charge even though the manual did not recommend using "slow" for this type of battery. Once one seemed to level off, I tried the other to see if there would be any change.

There are a couple of lakes that I plan to fish that are electric only, so I'll have to get this figured out soon. Thanks again for all the info, it is greatly appreciated. If I end up having to upgrade, so be it. I just want to be sure that I'll be able to cover the water and make it back to the dock!! LOL

[C_Bass]

It is possible that if you were not draining down the battery all the way before you charge it, the battery can get a "memory" so if you only use 50 percent each time out and you charge it a 50 percent thats all you will get out of the battery. The Fix..... Get a new battery ...... maybe get one with a smaller amp rating if you typically dont use the full charge.

[ttabaleulb]

I definitely do not drain the battery with each trip. Sometimes, depending on the wind, I barely use it at all, especially if I am drifting for the suspended fish following the baitfish pods. Once I stop seeing baitfish on the sonar, I fire up the outboard and start all over again. At this point, I am leaning toward a new battery. Once again, the battery connected to the outboard/sonar charged to 100% in just a few minutes. Its that blasted trolling motor battery thats driving me crazy! LOL

[muskie24/7]

Take a look at the VECTOR SMART CHARGERS! They will actually bring your battery back to life!

Brian

[ttabaleulb]

Thanks Brian, I'll check those out. Is there a particular model that you'd recommend?

[muskie24/7]

I think any of them that has the reconditioning cycle on it. They also sell a unit that is just for reconditioning!

Brian

[the yeti]

do yourself a favor when you can, and go buy a "marine" charger for your batteries.

most chargers at 5 amps, charging overnight, is more than enough for a battery.

just an FYI here, i got a deal on 2 minn kota MK330 chargers

one got submerged, and crapped the bed. the other just quit working.

i'll never buy minn kota chargers again.

[lowbidder]

Sorry to revive such an old post, but I've having charger issues as well.... I think. I'm going to describe the problem(s) best as possible and hopefully somebody has experienced something similar and can shed light on the problem.

My setup is as follows- 3 bank onboard Minn Kota battery charger (4 years old) charging one cranking battery and 2 deep cycle trolling batteries (all three less than 2 weeks old). Cranking battery is the best Walmart has to offer (can't remember the name). Deep cycles are the Optima Blue tops.

Installed the batteries on Monday and hooked up to the charger. Deep cycles lit green. Cranking lit green and red indicating a bad connection. Cleaned up the connections and light is still the same. Cranked the motor and it fired right up... wrote it off as a faulty indicator light. Unplugged the battery charger, but left the three banks attached to the batteries (is that okay?)

Assuming the batteries were fully charged, I left for the river on Friday and was quite suprised when my outboard would not crank. Battery was completely dead. Dropped the trolling motor and decided not to venture far from launch. Good thing because 15 minutes in, the trolling motor batteries were dead and I was paddling to shore while my less than concerned wife was throwing a topraider out the back cheering me on

My theory is as follows- When I bought the new batteries, they were only partially charged (are they supposed to be fully charged?). Faulty charger indicators read 100% while they really weren't. Cranking battery had enough to get me through fishing a week earlier, but drained too low over a weeks time to crank yesterday. The question remains, what caused the battery to drain from one week to the next? Can a bad charger drain a battery if it remains hooked to the battery, but not plugged into the wall outlet?

I am running the following test... charging each battery individually with a portable charger that I trust. then I'm going to let it sit a few days connected to the onboard charger but not plugged in like it was before. Then I will put the portable charger back on to see if the charge level has dropped on it's own (the portable charger has a % charged meter)

-If the charge level hasn't dropped, then I know my indicator lights are bad, but I can still use the charger to supply a charge.
-If it has dropped, I know something (probably the charger) is draining the batteries and I've gotta put in a new charger or hire an electrician.

Any help, suggestions, opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Mike

[muskie24/7]

Go with whatever Vector you can afford that has the reconditioner on it! I also seen some stuff on Ebay called ZAPIT! It says that it will restore 9 out of 10 batteries that have been labled as JUNK! I don't know anything about it first hand, but they sure do make it sound convincing in their ad! LOL!

Brian

[pure_joker]

I have been using the "wal-mart" batteries for years and the trick is to only charge them using a trickle charge. The one at my camp is charged by a solar charger (1.8 amp) and left there over winter (down to -20) and lasted me 5yrs. My two others get used all year long, from boat to the ice shack and use solar (1.8 amp) or trickle (1.5 amp) and are going on their 4th years. I'm not knocking the high-end batteries but you can get away with using the cheap-o and making them last with proper maintenance. Also remember to allow them to charge completely before you use them or they can "learn" to only accept a partial charge.

[lowbidder]

The Vector smart chargers look like a good piece of equipment for very little money, but they only charge one battery at a time. 90% of the time, that would work for me, but when that 10% of the time comes around, I'll be out buying a multiple-bank smart charger anyway! Might as well buy one now if that's the problem. Still not sure if that's the problem or not.

My test continues...
2 of the 3 batteries have now been fully charged with a portable charger. Now all I have to do is leave the onboard charger connected for a few days and see if it drains the batteries.

[lowbidder]

I finally got it figured out. Although my charger lights are faulty, it is not drawing amps from the batteries. It turned out to be the outboard. Something is drawing amps. I didn't put an amp meter on it, but I would guess about 1/2 amp draw by the speed at which the battery is disippating. Any ideas what could be creating that kind of draw?

Easy fix is a trickle charger, but I'd love to know what is creating that. Could lead to other problems.

[JIM T]

Cars,boats etc. including outboards, all have an onboard computer. this is constantly pulling small amperage . Leave your new car sit for 3 weeks & you'll have a dead battery.I have an onboard charger on every thing I own ,when it's not in use it's plugged in. I own an autobody shop and dead batteries here are very common.Left unused or uncharged and it WILL be a dead battery that will never hold a full charge again

[lowbidder]

I figured it would have an onboard computer, but I never thought it would pull that kind of power from the battery. Thinking back though, it is only a 500 CCA battery. Not very big.
I think I'll just breakdown and buy a new onboard charger. That should take care of all the issues. Nothing like throwin' money at the problem... HA!

[Red Childress]

I had to replace both trolling motor batteries early-Monday morning after only 17 months of use and I have an on-board charger. They would not accept any more charge after 1.5 hours of charging.

I was hoping to get at least 2 years out of them.

[Red Childress]

I like the on-board charging system for my application. I have such funky fishing hours during summer that is really helps me sleep knowing that things will turn off when finished charging. My batteries have been plugged in all winter and I just tested them last nite and they are showing full charge.

If you are looking for a battery with ultra-long life, I have heard very positive comments on the AGM's. Pricey but made to last. I was going to buy 2 series 31's at Cabela's a few weeks ago but they sold out before I could even get in line that morning.

My .02 cents.

[JIM T]

OK, Let the "older" person talk about your batteries.The next time you have a no-good battery ,very carefully cut the side off of it. You will see that most batteries are a series of plates, these sit in the acid that may have run all over your hands if you didn't drain it first, look in the bottom of the battery casing and you should see a residue built up high enough to touch those plates. This is why a battery starts to go bad. The residue falls off the plates and slowly builds up on the bottom. If the battery just went dead or won't hold a charge---experiment--put a tablespoon of ARM & HAMMER baking soda in each hole then bring fluid level up with distilled water, put covers on,let sit awhile then slowly shake it. Now ,turn over and empty out. Then rinse out with distilled water, this should get rid of most of the residue. Now you put fresh acid in ,charge it SLOWLY and it should now be refreshed and last you for a while. BUT,since i'm older, i'll just go buy 2 good deep cycles,keep them hooked up to my on-board charger any time it's not on the water and try to enjoy the fishing.

[Muskiekid]

FYI: as you know, green lights on chargers indicate that the batteries are charged fully. However, if one of your batteries is not charged when you go to use it (although the green light indicates it is), check the fuse for that bank. Some chargers green lights will come on and stay on when the fuse goes bad.