Musky/Pike Regulation Changes

[ppalko]

First, I'd support a total Catch and Release on musky. Second a confession. I was that kid who caught a 38 incher at Tionesta and took it home 30 years ago. If my son caught that same fish today...it would go back after a nice digital picture (as long as I remembered the camera). Bass and walleye populations in the river are much more affected by water level fluctuations that anything else unless you count fisherman and I otfen wonder how much we matter in the equation. Entire year classes of fish are wiped out if the dam corps or the weather mess with water levels during the spawn. I've fished the same stretch of the lower Allegheny for years with my dad and some years its great, others it stinks. The river at tionesta is the same although my trips there have diminished in recent years. Think of this...is the walleye fishing in the river going to be better next year since ice has eliminated the fishing pressure? I once thought that but it never seemed to matter in the past if memory serves me right.

ppalko

[Little35]

I would like to see the size limit increased to 45" muskies and I think over harvest of walleye is one of the top problems with any of the walleye fisheries in PA. (I want to see slot limits for walleye.)

I also think that tournament permits need to be more limited. Three bass tourneys on ONE lake in ONE week is not very productive.

Oh yes, one more thing, if you want to see what toothy is talking about as far as the meat fishermen filling their coolers for many years and then, when the catch rate and size goes way down, they are the first ones to complain that there are no fish, just go and fish Pymatuning and you will see the results of "filling the coolers"

This discussion sounds similar to all the hunters complaining that "there are no deer left, I only saw five deer today, we need to cut down on the doe licenses and season length", but these are the same hunters that just a few years ago would brag about how many "doe tags" they bought and how much meat they have in the freezer.

[Bob S.]

RapRunR, I was definatly not attacking you with my post and respect your opinion, I may not agree, however you have my respect. I enjoy reading your posts and hope my opinion was not taken as disrespectful. I sometimes fish with a couple of guys that need to kill A muskie so they can show them off at the beer joints, ( However not out of my boat ) I'm slooowly educating them, to the point of buying them Muskie Inc. memberships and promoting C&R along with replicas.

I quit Deer hunting ( In Pa. ) several years ago due to the decline of the herd where I hunted as compared to what it use to be. I listened to complaints from hunters that there was " No Deer " as these same hunters had and were filling antlerless tags for the same area they said there was no deer in anymore, these same guys tried to sell me the excuse that they needed the meat for the freezer " you know hard times " They spent more money on one trip than if they were to buy a whole beef.

I would hope this same type of senario does not happen with fishing as did with hunting did in the area I hunted. I really don't have any other hobby to fall back on.

We all need to take care of our fisheries so as to be able to enjoy them.

[RapRunR]

First off guys i refuse to take offense for anything said. We and i are debating a question that was asked, that's all. Just some fishing guys exploring all the possibilities of the past, present and future. I found this site one day searching for a new fishing site to join. Since Red and everyone is fishing in this area i thought it would be great to join to share AND learn, which i learn more and more each day. I didn't realize until later that most of you guys are all after mainly muskies, which isn't a problem at all since we talk about other fish also. I love living in Tionesta and the Allegheny River is THE place i spend most of my free time. What a great place to live !! Anyhow, just to clarify, i am not just a walleye guy. I fish for muskies, eyes, smallies, steelheads, crappies and sometimes in the hot summer days knocking a few back hitting the cats at night. I'm diversified in my liking. I am in no way knowledgeable as you guys when it comes to these things about what we have been talking about. I spent several hours researching yesterday trying to find out more about this subject of size limits and what skies eat, eyes, eat and how forage is or can be impacted. Trying to get as Red said, educated. I did find that bigger size limits seem to NOT impact the fisheries as long as there is enough forage or junk fish to feed on. Certainly we do have plenty here in this area. There's bait everywhere around here. Depletion of eyes as Toothy mentioned is certainly and absolutely to blame on the eye fisherman. I do and have seen some guys that let them go. There was a post even in here from a gentleman that i watched release that 31" eye one day while i was fishing. I will even admit i keep too many of them, eyes in particular. I do not keep any skies anymore though. All are released. Too easy to take a picture, measure carefully, quickly and watch them swim off. This is getting too long and rambling so i will say to all that i took no offense to anything said and hope no one took offense for what i said. I didn't want to ire anyone. I do understand more about the skies we are after and would agree more with everyone after reading up that ALL fish can live together like they have for eternity in our great Allegheny River. That being said i do like the idea of a slot limit for eyes. That would curtail the big ones from being harvested to replenish the stock. I have also read that some lakes even with a 50" limit on skies has done NOTHING to decimate ANY species whatsoever because of the abundance of the bait fish. With this being said i would have to say i agree with you guys more and more about the size limits for skies and now see that 40" is no big deal at all. I have about faced and should thank you guys for "forcing" me to do some serious research on the aspect. All in all it's US that have to be more responsible in our taking home any fish and truly and honestly thinking before we harvest. The next time i catch that 30" eye you might be surprised at seeing me take my pics and watching her swim away to fight another day. Thx guys, the great thing about getting older, i'm 45 btw, is still learning something new every day. Sorry so long fellas but there was a lot to say. Now when's all this ice going to melt ? I'm having withdrawals already, lol.

[Red Childress]

RapRunR,

I had not heard anything from you for a day or so and I thought we might have ran you off or something. We are a good group of guys without idiotic posts or replies that you might see on other boards. As more and more guys join the forum, they will (hopefully) see that we are trying to help each other.

Aside from just being a "fishing reports" board, my goal for this board was to try and shorten the fishing learning curve by getting answers to questions without having to spend all day searching the internet. Purposely making guys feel stupid or inferior by asking a question is frowned upon. We all gotta start somewhere and if WE never ask a question, then we simply stay ignorant. There are some VERY sharp individuals on here that have a wide range of experiences.

Like I mentioned before, education is the key to getting rid of the old school musky mentality of the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's.

I am glad you were not offended.

[RapRunR]

LOL, no you guys didn't run me off. Been busy this weekend working on cleaning some stuff out of the house and putting it on eBay since this bitter cold is keeping me indoors.

You certainly are a great group of guys and i enjoy this site with all your posts Red and others too.

I'm glad it came to all this really. It put me in a reading mode and i have learned some things about what we have been talking about. That's another reason why i join sites like this. To make new friends, to learn from others and share experiences and ideas. It has changed my aspects on a couple things and i conclude in agreement that the new 40" reg will do nothing harmful to our fisheries. I have debated this with my friends all year and maybe now that i know more about it i can try and explain it to them also the philosophy of such. I also really like the idea of slot limits for eyes and will check into that more also. Old dogs can learn new tricks. Thx

[Red Childress]

We have a pretty healthy population of big pike within 30 miles or so of the Kinzua outflow and they are not stocked.......natural reproduction has thrived here for many years along with a decent population of natural pure-bred muskies.

If I could change one aspect of the new regulations, I would (at least) make it illegal to harvest pike ON THE MIDDLE ALLEGHENY RIVER during the SPAWN. I am seeing and hearing about more and more big pike being harvested from the river, and not just within legal limits. Several people are taking everything they catch which can be as many as 3 or more fish per day, especially in shallow areas covered with ice. Many ice fisherman are keeping them and some are showing their kids how and where to fish for them......the cycle repeats itself over the years.

We are still getting nice pike in the river but no where near the numbers like we were just 4-5 years ago. In most musky studies I have read, BIG muskies and BIG pike usually do not co-habitate together. It is an either/or situation as the pike usually conquer all for the simple fact they spawn first and eat the smaller musky fry year after year until the muskies are gone. Since the PFBC stocks our waters pretty heavily here with muskies, there have been trophy populations of both species for many years. The incredible amount of bait fish has probably helped sustain them both.

Again, I am not a biologist but as the muskies get more plentiful and are allowed to reach adulthood and by adding more "illegal pike fishing pressure" that is occurring here in Warren Co., we could possibly see the Warren County stretch of River become void of large pike someday.

Just a school teacher speculating on the future. Take it for what it is worth.....

[RapRunR]

Speaking of pike eating musky. These are a couple of pics i ran across of a guy that had a strange find on the water one day.

[Red Childress]

There have been instances of muskies going after big ducks and geese, getting them stuck in their throat (because their teeth angle back towards the throat like a shark) and then asphyxiating.

Talk about your eyes being too big for your tummy........

[ppalko]

I had a LM Bass down a sucker in my tank last year that was maybe 1 inch shorter than the bass. Talk about indigestion! The bass had the tail sticking out for three days. Fish do crazy things!

ppalko

[jah1317]

The pike won the battle but the musky won the war........ makes you wonder how big he thought he was.

[Red Childress]

The number of fisherman who do not know about the new musky/pike regulations is surprising. Last year, I had a few clients who did not know about them......there are plenty of good fisherman around here who are not familiar with the changes since they do not fish for them. I am sure it is the same in other areas, too.

I am not knocking anyone with that statement just stating the facts. How many non-musky/pike fisherman have actually read the "rule book" lately?? I do not make it a common practice of reading it from cover to cover each year but I should....

[the yeti]

wisco and ohio are nearly stone age when it comes to musky regs. in those states, for the every day shiner draggers out therre, it's all about the harvest.

same with kentucky. green river enjoys a yearly "fish stacking" at one end of the lake during the spawn. not pretty.

taking a few pages from Minnesota's and canada's books would be a start.

i wouldn't mind becoming a musky mecca AFTER they put in regulations. i'd hate to see people crossing over to this state just to harvest a "trophy" 40 incher.

there arent many muskies in this state worth fishing for anyways!