What do you think?

[jjeyes19]

So is it time to ask ourselves if it is time to put some restrictions for a slot limit on the tff. 18" - 20" walleyes are nice we catch an abundance of them every year. But there was a time when a 5 - 8 pounder was not unusual. I know I would like to catch 1 in that range if not bigger some day and not have to go trolling to bay de noc. I personally hate trolling. There are an abundance of small mouth which are fun to catch and I know theree are 5 - 8 pounders caught with regularity, problem is just like the damn northerns they eat everything in sight. I don't dislike smallie's, I do dislike northerns, I just think with a little effort we can make the tff an excellent trophy lake for walleye's too. I know it disturbs the amount of fish we can keep, but we can still have fun catching them, and it wouldn't take many years for it to start showing the affects. We have musky's and smallie's lets go for the trifecta. Something for everyone to ponder over the winter months, not trying to start any controversy just looking to hear some thoughts. Its getting very boring and cold, may is to far away!

[Joe271828]

If Sm bass are abundant, why not just use similar rules for Walleyes? Bag limit 2, 14" min. Throw in a only one over 22" for trophie protection if ya want. But I'm thinking 2 over 14" and ya got your meal.

If your thinking of feeding a family of 12, take 6 ppl fishin.
Addionitionally, now I'm not completely sure on this as I have never needed to consult the rulebook on it. I think your allowed to have 2 bag limits per day, although ya can't have more than the bag limit in the boat at any given time. This way those camping/staying somewhere on the TFF could catch more if they need/want. Just my two cents.
But then again, I think the bass limit should be 15" too. Crappie should be 10" on ALL lakes 100acre or larger, and a bag limit of 5 for crappie as well. Not sure about how everyone else feels, but I'd rather keep less but larger fishes.
And anything that eats mosquitoes shoudl be prized higher than gold !!!

[DonH]

I agree with jjeyes19 that the size of the average walleye caught on the TFF has become smaller. Our biggest & heaviest stringers (photos that went on the wall at Idle Shores Resort) were all caught BS (before spearing). We still catch 20+ inch walleyes though not nearly as often, and as my son says, we take a photo followed by a quick release.

I do have to correct Joe271828. You are allowed to catch 1 bag limit per day. You are allowed to have possesion of 2 bag limits (in your freezer for instance), but the daily limit is just that, 1 single bag limit, which on the TFF is 3 walleyes and 2 smallmouths. The DNR ran a sting operation a couple of springs ago ticketing people who caught their limits, took it to shore and then went back out for additional fish. On the TFF there is also a 15" size limit on smallmouth, not the 14" you mention.

Also don't quite understand why you would rather take less but larger fish. The flavor of a 17" walleye so far exceeds the flavor of a 20+" walleye it isn't even funny. Last large walleye I ate was a 24+ incher, and I was astounded by how poor it tasted in comparison to the regular sized fish we usually ate.

This is also just my 2 cents.

[jjeyes19]

I dont want to eat a 24" walleye! Before spearing was mentioned and is a valid point, I dont know if there will ever be a time again when there isn't that type of harvest. I guess my point was if you have a slot say 18"-26", most walleye's in that size range will be females. More big females more eggs more fish...eventually. It gives the fish a chance once they get into that slot a chance to continue to grow and produce, and eventually a chance to get to 30". Musky has a 50" limit, why cause everyone was keep 36", what does that do, it could over time stunt them whatever. They put a limit on the fish to let them grow, so let them.

[gdi]

When I started coming up to the TFF as a kid ther was a 5fish per day and a 16" size limit. My dad keept fosh 18 to 22 most went 20's I guess. There was never a day that he colud not produce a stringer of fish in that range,even in August. Only used spiiners nver a jig just casted and caught.

I think a size limit would help I myself am tired of catching fish under 16 with a few over that.

A lake I fish in ILL had a size limit of 22 to keep 2 per day now that the lake is well established they lowered the soze limit to 18 to 22 slot to keep, what a fishery. Great to catch nice size fish.

Just my 2 cents


gdi

[Brian P]

Fishing has definitely changed for the worse on the TFF. A lot of us were talking after the tournament in Jan about just that. A slot would be a start in the right direction. There was a lot of talk about how many more crawfish were in the lake when the walleye fishing was great. I don't know if there are still crawfish trappers active. I can't believe the small mouth are eating all the walleye bait in the lake. The DNR needs to be more active to ensure the limits are not abused.

[DonH]

I've mentioned this before. I've been going to the TFF since 1960. Several guys and myself camped on islands for many years once we reached adulthood. Then as our kids grew up, they joined us on these camping trips. Now we rent a large cabin (with age comes wisdom), but we often sit around a campfire at night talking about the "good old days". I can tell you with absolute certainty that the crawfish population has crashed. I used to catch them and toss them into a fire for a snack. Virtually every walleye we caught years ago had crawfish in their gullet (I cleaned the fish and I always checked). We all remember this. Caught walleyes all over the flowage and they almost always had crawfish in their gullet.

Blue Ranger has pointed out that crawfish is probably not their preferred prey, and he's probably right, but the fact is that in this body of water, that's what they were feeding on. Maybe the yellow perch population was not strong enough to totally support the walleye population?

Enter the smallmouth into this equation and the effect on the crawfish population has been dramatic. We used to see hundreds with a flashlight along shore of the islands we camped on at night. The last time we camped (3years ago), not only did we not see a single crawfish, we tossed some guts along shore to attract some, and none showed up. Not a one.

So along with smallmouth bass taking over the same habitat (I have some rockbars that we only caught walleyes on for decades, and now we're catching as many or more smallmouths on these spots than walleyes), they have also changed the foodchain. I agree that the walleyes may need some help. Whether it's a slot limit, or size limit, that decision is beyond me. Maybe it's as simple as an enforced bag limit. If you care about the TFF, you follow the law as to the amount of fish you take. No more catching your limit, taking it to shore and going back out to catch more. The bag limit needs to be enforced and if the DNR can't do it, then we who care must report those that are breaking the law.

And that is my 2 cents worth. Have a great day.

[ski2313]

Maybe Tom502 can chime in on this? I know he has good information on the TFF management plan.. if I remember correctly, it was going to be managed going forward for #'s of walleye and not size.

[BlueRanger]

Here's a link to the full text of the plan:

http://www.turtleflambeauflowage.com...eauFMP3-07.pdf

[Randy]

Interesting Read.

I'm a little discouraged by the high priority there seems to be on "harvesting" walleye out of the TFF. Granted, I like a walleye shore lunch just as much as the next guy, but by no means does the enjoyment of my experience hinge on eating my catch. If a slot limit or decreased bag limit eventually leads to more and bigger fish, is there anyone out there who would be opposed?

[bunczak]

I normally fish walleyes on the WI river and make a trip to the TFF most years. The part of the WI river that I fish has a 15" minimum size limit with a 20-28" protected slot, 5 fish per day, one over 28" allowed. This works very well, it means that "eaters" have to be at least 15" and as many of you know, walleyes put on quite a bit of meat between 13" and 15", but protects those larger females (which I don't want to eat anyhow-for the good of the fishery and mercury issues), while allowing someone to keep a trophy to put on the wall.

The regulation has worked so well on the WI river, that it was kept after the initial pilot period and I believe it has been expanded further up the river.

The only negative is that since almost every walleye that is 15.000001" or larger gets kept, you can catch 30 -50 fish on a good day and have very few "keepers". I don't look at this as a big problem, since I am very excited to catch that many walleyes.

I have to agree with Blue Ranger about the size of lures and sizes of walleyes. On a particular stretch of the WI river, where many complain that there are very few fish over 15", I have had very good success on large walleyes in the fall on #13 rapalas. 13" eyes don't usually hit a bait that large, but 20+" ones certainly do- along with some bonus muskies.

[BlueRanger]

I don't think 4-1/2 hours to catch a walleye is acceptable either. But that's an average, and I made a decision a long time ago that I had no intention of being an average angler. You should also take note that those numbers are for the entire season - that same year, the catch rate for the month of May was 1.2 hours/walleye. And if you don't think 1.5 walleyes per acre over 15" is acceptable, consider that in the TFF, that's 21,000 fish (Jeff used 14,000 acres for his calculations). If you can't get a few of them to bite, you're doing something wrong. It might surprise you to know that in 1975, when the population estimate was 50% higher and the estimate for walleyes over 15" was 3.4 per acre, the creel census found an average catch rate of 6.7 hours per walleye. Seems to me that if we apply your dad's logic, those numbers prove that if we want better walleye fishing, what we really need is further reductions in the walleye population. But it reinforces the point I made in the last post - when it comes to walleyes, what people catch and what's actually in the lake are two very different things.

My dad is lucky if he makes it up there 4-5 times a season, and although he's far from helpless on the water, I don't think of him as a serious fisherman. He just enjoys spending some quiet time in his boat, and unless he's fishing with me, about the farthest he ever gets from the dock is Springstead Landing to put in and take out. But he goes out and throws jointed Rapalas at nearby shorelines for a couple hours every evening, and almost always brings home some nice walleyes. Last year, most of them were 17-18" and his biggest was 26". Last summer, they had my 8-year-old niece up there for a week, and she spent a lot of her time sitting on the end of the dock with a worm and bobber, hauling in plenty of nice perch, bluegills, sunfish, walleyes, smallmouth and even a 3 lb. sucker. Point is, you don't need to be a guide or fish the lake every other weekend to do well - or maybe the moral of the story is that you should be fishing in front of our dock...but not all at once, please. Boy, now I wish I hadn't mentioned it.

As for me, I'm certainly not a "smallmouth fisherman". I fish for largemouth, smallmouth, musky, northerns, walleye, crappies, perch, trout and salmon, in various places and at different times of the year. I've caught trophies of every one of those species EXCEPT smallmouth - in spite of catching and releasing thousands of them over the past several years, I'm still looking for a 6 lb. fish. I consider myself equally good at catching all of those species, and have been doing so successfully since I was less than half my current age and doing it from a 12' Mirro with a 6HP 1966 Evinrude, a pair of oars and an old Lowrance flasher, or standing on some rocks along the Lake Michigan shoreline, or waist deep in one of the tributaries, or off the public dock at a 5 acre pond a couple miles outside of town. When it comes to the TFF, I may have some built up some advantages in water time and equipment in recent years, but I've had no trouble catching walleyes there since day one about 18 years ago, when I didn't have the fast boat and fancy sonar and only had time to get up there a few weekends (back then, the regular 2-day kind) a season. I've certainly improved my skills and knowledge of the lake every year, but in my opinion, the fishery has also improved for every species with the possible exception of muskies, and with them it's hard to tell because musky fishing conditions have been less than ideal during significant parts of the last couple seasons.

As for the hypotheticals, there are quite a few answers to the "what harm could come of it" question, and one is that a 2 walleye daily limit could put the place you sleep when you come to visit out of business, because for some unknown reason, even anglers who have never caught a 3-fish limit in their life will still choose to go somewhere else where it's at least technically possible. As for adverse impacts on the fishery itself, there a variety of possibilities. Here's one from a recent article written by a friend of mine who's the outdoors editor at the St. Paul Pioneer Press:

"Most of Minnesota’s major walleye lakes have slot limits — regulations that generally require anglers to keep small fish and one token trophy and throw back larger, breeding-sized fish. However, slot limits can vary greatly from lake to lake.

Not only have slot limits added complexity to the regulations, there is research showing protecting large numbers of breeding fish might be detrimental to young walleyes. A recent Lake Mille Lacs report suggests cannibalism contributed to a significant loss of the 2006 hatch of walleyes, which began as the largest year class ever recorded in Mille Lacs. The report concluded 18 percent of Lake Mille Lacs walleye diets in 2006 were small walleyes.

“Lower survival of young fish may be a recruitment response to the increased number of large fish since Treaty regulations began in 1997,” the report states."

In other words, more big fish in the population may lead to fewer keeper-size fish overall. Some anglers are also complaining that walleye populations have become much more prone to boom and bust cyclical fluctuations since the implementation of the slot limits.

I think we have a very good fisheries biologist who will take a sensible approach based on the comprehensive survey results. I have no inherent objection to any type of new regulation, but I think the survey data will show that the walleye population is in very good shape and no changes are required. That's just my prediction, and we'll find out in a year or so if I'm right or wrong.

Bunczak, here's a Wisconsin Sportsman article that mentions the Wisconsin River slot limit. It's clear from the article that this is not a permanent change yet. What they did was extend the expiration date of the experimental regulation because they needed additional time to determine whether it's working, and it sounds like there are some doubts.

http://www.wisconsinsportsmanmag.com...01/index2.html

[Paul Rothenberger]

I can tell you with certainty as can Don Hill and several other long time TFF flowage fisherman that this has never been a trophy walleye lake. Even before spearing the maximum length achieved on the flowage is about 25". This was during the days of zero fishing pressure when we would go the entire memorial weekend and not see another boat. The size of flowage walleye has to do with genetics and this is included and discussed in the last DNR survey on the fishery. I would not be in favor of slot limits on the flowage even though I do like these limits on other lakes. It could be utilized for Muskies and Smallies but not walleyes.

Regarding the crawfish population, I remeber the old days before spearing and before small mouth when the crawfish were everywhere. However, the 24" walleye was still the top end. I have never seen or heard of a trophy walleye ever being caught on the flowage. Some of you have received or looked at the family pictures we posted from the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. You will notice bigger stringers in terms of quantity of fish. Many 3 to 4 Lb walleyes in that 20" range. With 10 people going annually from 53 to 88, we would have landed the occassional trophy if they existed but they never have. Trophy Muskies in that time span (yes), trophy crappies (several), trophy perch (yes), monster rockbass (yes), but the walleye genetics limit the size.

paul

[Randy]

Had a conversation with Porky and Don Pemble last fall and if I recall correctly (drinks were flowing) their biggest TFF walleye were well over 25". My grandpa had one on the wall just shy of 28". Dave from the old Cedar Lodge caught a 16 1/2 pounder years ago. I have to imagine that fish would be well over 30"

I have to believe if there is a real lack of large walleye it's got to be a result of fishing pressure and spearing.

Why don't we all chime in with our biggest walleye and when it was caught.

24 3/4" late 80's

[luv2brw]

Saw my buddy catch a 24 inch walleye in May 2008.

I netted a 27 1/2 inch walleye for my uncle in 1982, he caught it using 1/2 of a nightcrawler.

My best is 22.

[George]

My biggest walleye caught on the flowage was a 34" 17 pounder. Oh...you wanted the truth? Okay, it was 26" and right around 6 pounds. I caught it in the fall of 1986 on a minnow with a split shot and #2 TruTurn hook off the rock bar between 1st bay and the river channel. It was released. You have to believe me on this one because I didn't have a camera with me. If you don't believe, then it was 34" and 17 pounds!

[DonH]

My biggest walleye is just shy of 25". Ive had a couple of huge fish on that I lost, but that's the biggest that I've caught.

In October of the year we were married, I lost a huge fish with my wife in the boat. That was also her last October trip to the TFF. We were staying in the Honeymoon Cabin" at O'Meara's resort. The toilet didn't flush and the shower didn't drain, so I guess walking aroung in the cabin with boots on wasn't her cup of tea.

So I have this huge fish on using a homemade jig with a stinger hook. I used 8lb. for my main line and 6 lb. for the stinger. Theory being, if I snag with the stinger, that line breaks and I get my jig back. Works pretty well as I do that to this day. On that day however, that fish wouldn't come up. I got her below the boat and I'd gain some line, then I'd lose some line. Finally the stinger line did break...but I got my jig back!

Replying to Paul R. I agree. Fishing this lake for all those years and a biggest walleye of only 25". I've heard stories of tons of really big fish at the dam near Lake of the Falls during spawning, and I'm sure this body of water has lots of really big fish. I just don't think the percentage would stand up when compared to other walleye lakes, so it probably is genetics to a degree. It is also harder to land a big fish here unless you are geared up for big fish. I've had several fish take me into snags and break off and some of them felt pretty heavy. One comes to mind with my dad years ago.

There are no coincidences in nature. Everything has a cause and an effect. A coincidence is Blue Ranger coming to the TFF 18 years ago. That puts his arrival at about 1991. This is the precise year when smallmouth bass started being caught at sizes over 12" to 14". (He never saw the walleye factory this place was, and also never witnessed the absolute absence of smallmouth bass.) Spearing had been going on for a few years and they grabbed that opportunity, found a nitch and here we are. Remember, in the early years of spearing, the numbers were huge (6,000 to 6,500) with much different size limits. Earl Tomak used to tell me that the eagles ate good afterwards due to all the wounded fish that died. These fist never appeared in the official final counts. Spearing was not a catalyst for the change, it was the change. The coincidence is too clear cut to be anything else. 4 years after the start of spearing, we suddenly have smallmouth bass all over the place? It has to be that.

I fished this place from 1960 to 1990 and really, honestly can't recall catching one legal smallie in all those years (I'm not even sure I caught a smallie at all). Since 1991, I can't recall even an outing when I haven't. I've mentioned this before. In 1985, my brother-in-law caught a 14.5" smallie and had it mounted. That's not even legal today.

Lastly - the crayfish population crash. No, they have not evolved in 14 years to recognize their main predator, and change everything they do, where they roam for food, where they burrow and live, where they mate, etc. (this is a creature with a brain the size of a pinhead - it took early man thoudsands of years to make the transition from living in trees to living on the prairie). The reason you don't see them in nearly the numbers you used to is because they have been eaten. They are gone. I know Blue Ranger found some in a trap and deemed the population healthy and well, but remember, he wasn't here in the 60's, 70's, or 80's. If he had seen what some of us saw, I think he might better understand how drastic the changes have been to this lake, and the catalyst was just a couple early years of spearing.