What do you think?

[mikesgotone]

Good to see things have calmed down a bit. It got nasty there. Nice post Paul, good to see someone with an open mind. I'd like to see all this cabin fever postin, go towards something a bit more positive. like maybe sharin some tricks to catchin those fish we're arguin about, or favorite luers or something. anywho, Ice is breakin up down here just south of the border. its been rainin like crazy. Hows it up there?
Oh, and I'd like to go on record and say. That hats not so bad blue. Ive seen much worse. like any hat that says PACKERS, CARDINALS, OR BREWERS. I almost dont even want to mention the cheese triangle. Yeah thats right I said it.
Bring on spring.

[MuskieRandy]

I don't understand the disgust over BR's hat. I don't see what is wrong with it at all. Maybe my wife would know, she's my fashion expert. She actually taught me that a baseball cap has got to have the brim bent in a nice curve, otherwise you are not cool.

I wear a "standard issue" baseball cap when I fish, and I was considering getting something like BR's hat, actually. I need something to keep the sun off my ears and neck. After hours and hours on the lake, my ears start to look like lobsters on the side of my head. All I need is skin cancer of the ears....

After reading these posts, I'm going to have to haul my wife off with me to shop for a wide brimmed hat, lest I get something utterly uncool (according to you all) like BR's hat.

Please post your links to cool looking wide brimmed hats, I'm watching

[George]

Skin cancer is a real concern for all of us. I too have gone to a wide brimmed hat. I've read that dermatologists found an increase in the occurance of skin cancers as the baseball cap replaced the wide brimmed hats worn by farmers and others who work outdoors. Also, my wife is constantly reminding me to put on sunblock. Kind of a pain, but the manufacturers are coming out with stuff that's a lot easier to apply and nowhere near as greasy. We all worry about hitting stuff on the flowage, but skin cancer is a significantly larger danger and how often do we not wear protective clothing or sunblock. I know I'm guilty of not taking all the precautions I should as I'm sure many of us are. Thanks for bringing up this subject Randy. And Blue...personally I like the hat!

[Paul Rothenberger]

Mike wanted some tips for the nice walleyes, here is one that can be effective.

I like a jig and minnow but cast the same direction as the drift. It slows the bait down and if you happen to find some lumber, you drift over the snag and eventually behind it.

As a bonus you can drift with a bobber and night crawler or minnow on the other side of the boat at the same time, but need to watch the drifting bobber close because it is also a good technique for losing a pole. At times the drifting bobber can do very well, for walleyes, and smallies. But the best part about the drifting bobber is that you occasionaly run into a school of big perch, or a nice crappie as they both like the bait moving. I usually use the night crawler because of these perch.

This technique works very well in Beaver Flats, but lots of lumber there too. If you hit a walleye throw the marker and drift the same area again. If a second walleye is caught consider anchoring and throwing towards the buouy.

Paul

Paul

[BlueRanger]

Sure, I abandon my computer for a few days and George hatches a plot to send me to sensitivity training!

Paul, I'm really happy to see someone else offering an upbeat assessment of the current walleye fishery. At a time when people are planning their summer vacations, and knowing that it's likely to be a tough year, I'm sure the businesses that depend on the TFF don't appreciate people posting comments about how the walleye fishing has gone to you know where in a handbasket. I also agree with your assessment of the prospects for creating a trophy walleye fishery here.

I'm well aware that most people who were around at the time spearing began believe it's responsible for both the walleye decline and the smallmouth explosion. But you also point out the widespread animosity that existed toward the tribal spearers at the time, and in that environment, do you really think there was any willingness on the part of most anglers to even consider an alternative explanation?

Of course, you're right that the truth will never be known. Regardless of what Randy might want to label as "FACTS", we don't actually know what the walleye or smallmouth populations were in 1984, immediately before spearing began. But to accept the idea that spearing caused the smallmouth population increase, it's necessary to believe that the removal of primarily larger walleyes significantly reduced predation on juvenile smallmouth, and I don't think that idea holds water, because young of the year smallmouth aren't anywhere near their optimum prey size. The timing also has to be considered - smallmouth fry are most vulnerable as they begin to venture away from their nests, and this occurs at about the same time that the mayflies are hatching. Back in the days when the smallmouth were a fraction of their present numbers, it would have made little sense for large walleyes to waste their time hunting down relatively small, scattered pods of a few hundred tiny smallmouth fry when huge clouds of larger, slower-moving mayflies were hatching elsewhere in the lake. And on top of that, you have to believe that the effect was so huge and immediate that the very first year of spearing resulted in a year class of smallmouth that produced over 5,000 harvested fish 4 years later. Finally, there is no evidence to suggest that the combined harvest from spearing and hook and line fishing has ever been as high as the 1975 harvest by anglers alone - in fact, all the available evidence suggests that the reverse is true. And if, in fact, the population was still near 100,000 adults in 1985 and supported by good juvenile year classes, all the research indicates that it should have been capable of supporting harvest well above documented levels without significant long-term effects. I think the apparent impact of spearing had more to do with removing a sizeable number of larger fish from the population before the season opened and hook and line anglers had a crack at them. The obvious effect would be to increase prey availability for the survivors, and this has repeatedly been demonstrated to have a significant effect on catch rates. This might lead anglers to perceive a much greater immediate impact on the population than was actually the case.

Since nobody else has mentioned it, there's some important developing news that may give Randy his wish ("...what harm is there in modifying our limits? Why is nothing [being] done"?). It seems the Lac du Flambeau will be holding a referendum to decide whether to abandon their 1997 agreement with the state that allowed the DNR to maintain a 3-fish walleye bag limit. Here's a link to the article that appeared in the Lakeland Times:

http://www.lakelandtimes.com:80/main...ectionID=9&S=1

I checked the dates, and noticed that this article appeared only 1 week after Randy's comments. Since Randy would be the first to admit that it's impossible for two seemingly related things to happen at roughly the same time unless one caused the other, perhaps he owes us an apology.

I've been searching for additional details, but haven't seen any.

As for some of those other "FACTS":

"FACT" 1: The title of the photo album in question is "Who is Blue." Obviously the intention was to share some good pictures of myself. It turns out that when you're taking self-timer pictures in a boat, you get the best results under bright sunlight on a calm day. On the other hand, when you're trying to catch walleyes, those conditions tend to produce the worst results. Would I rather catch a smallmouth than a walleye? In absolute terms, yes, but not when I'm in the mood for a fish meal. And I'm amazed he didn't point out that I have a bass boat! Oh my! I think everybody who knows me is well aware that the largest proportion of my time is spent fishing for muskies, but I can guarantee that I spend more time fishing for walleyes on the TFF every year than Randy does. And I could easily claim that his opinion is the one that's biased, because unlike me, it seems obvious that he's only interested what's good for the walleye population, regardless of how it impacts other species.

"FACTS" 2 and 3: As I noted above, we don't know what the walleye and smallmouth populations were in 1984, and we don't know what they are today. It takes more to make something a fact than labeling it as one - even if you use all capital letters.

"FACT" 4: Freak is on target. In a comparison of over 200 lakes in northern Wisconsin, researchers found absolutely no statistical evidence that lakes with abundant smallmouth populations had less abundant walleye populations, and extremely detailed dietary analysis studies have found insignificant prey overlap between the two species. And that interpretation of Jeff's comments was way off base. It's a public document, so of course it's going to be phrased in a diplomatic way, but I was at the meeting, and here's a proper translation: "Some of those fears were allayed after discussion about known interactions between these species" actually means, "We spoke at length about the abundant research demonstrating that this is not an issue. Most of the attendees accepted this, but a few were unwilling to believe a word we said." And "a majority view that smallmouth bass probably have not adversely affected the walleye fishery in the Turtle-Flambeau Flowage" means, "because we knew this wasn't a concern, we ignored it when we formulated the plan". The DNR understands the significance of the TFF walleye fishery, and if the smallmouth posed a risk to the walleye population, it would have been taken into consideration.

As for eagleeye's video, as I indicated in my comments on that thread, I like Godsmack, but I think anyone would be hard-pressed to explain the thematic connection between a video that clearly depicts a group fishing outing and a song entitled "I Stand Alone". Judging from eagleeye's response, I don't think he took any great offense. And it seems a bit hypocritical for Randy to criticize one of the two people who not only watched the video start to finish, but then took the time to express their appreciation for the effort eagleeye made to share it - especially considering that he wasn't one of them.

I made a comment that natural systems are very complex, and that simple explanations are often incomplete or incorrect. I ran across some interesting research that illustrates that point. It seems that many lakes in our region experienced very poor walleye year classes in 1992 and 1993, and credible research has linked this to - of all things - the June, 1991 eruption of Mt. Pinatubo in the Phillippines. A Minnesota researcher found that as much as 57% of the annual variation in walleye recruitment can be explained by June temperatures. The volcano's ash cloud lowered global temperatures by as much as 1 degree Fahrenheit at the peak of its effect, and May-July temperatures in Minnesota in 1992-93 were actually 3 degrees below the long-term average. Interestingly, the study mentions that the previous regional trough in walleye recruitment occurred in 1979, which is pretty close to the "about 1980" estimate I used in my hypothesis. If you combine poor climate conditions with cannibalization or a prey shortage, you get an even better opportunity for exactly the kind of exceptionally weak year classes I suggested.

The hat, may it rest in peace, came from the good folks at Columbia - it did a great job of keeping the sun off my upper parts, at a very reasonable price. Unfortunately, it was straw and got crushed to death in my rear storage compartment.

[mikesgotone]

Another good read from blue. Randy, I think he may sound arrogant because he knows what hes talking about. Its obvious to me that he has spent a fair amount of time researching the subject. And I can understand how someone could get aggrovated while debating with someone who obviously hasnt... No offense. Ive been going to the flowage since I was a kid, but Im not gonna pretend to know why the fishing evolved the way it did. I'll admit that I always thought spearing had hurt the walleye, because thats just what Ive always heard. In light of this thread, I now think otherwise. But I gotta be honest... I never cared. I have way more fun on the flowage these days. We still limit on walleye for dinner every day we're up there. And have a blast catching smallies the rest of the time.


Thanks for the tips paul. We actually drift the flats often. We used to use jig and a minnow more. But for some reason we got away from it. We usually cast spinners tipped with a grub, like a berkly power grub, or something like it. I usually get more action on the smaller spinners. Even the "mini" ones. Ive caught some of the biggest fish on the smallest spinners. But that grub is the key for us. Tube jigs aint half bad either. Try flippin one next to a stump on a hot summer day. you'll find those fish when they're hidin'.

I'd enjoy any other favorite techniques. Thanks. mike

[George]

Just to add to Blue's comments relative to the '92-'93 poor year-classes for walleyes; a 2005 Canadian study titled 'The Status of Walleye in Lacs des Mille Lacs: a Fall Walleye Index Netting Summary' by the Ministry of Natural Resources in Northwest Ontario cited a 2002 study which said...

The 1992 and to a lesser degree the 1993 year-classes were weak which can be attributed to cooler temperatures following the Mount Pinatubo eruption in the Philippine Islands in 1991 (Schupp 2002)

Looks like the Canadians saw like results and came to the same conclusion.

[Randy]

Paul, sounds like our tactics are pretty similar. In regards to the bobber trailing behind the boat, we leave the bail open and tuck a bit of the line under a rubber band. When there is tension on the line it simply comes undone from the rubber band and the line freely spools off. We still occasionally donate a rod to the flowage gods as nothing is foolproof.

Blue, not really sure where to start..... Unbelievable how a volcanic eruption in the Phillipines can affect walleye recruitment in northern Wisconsin. I guess everything in nature has a cause and affect, everything except walleye and smallmouth populations in the TFF.

I am willing to admit my bias towards a certain species of fish in a body of water. When we fish locally around Milwaukee we pursue all different species. When I travel 300 miles north for my two yearly trips to the TFF, I prefer to catch walleye. It's the one species that's really in short supply in the local lakes and fishing the TFF is the only real opportunity I have all year to catch walleye.

The article you referenced deals with hook and line bag limits related to what percentage of the allowable catch is taken by tribal spearing. I'm not really sure how that relates to a slot limit allowing more fish to grow over 20" or a lake growing it's population of walleye by reducing the percentage of the allowable catch actually harvested. By the way, I wish you would have accurately quoted the entire statement, not just the part that worked for your argument.

Lastly, in regards to your insinuation that local business owners don't appreciate people posting comments about the walleye fishing going to #### in a handbasket. Why no quote here???? Why not quote the sentence where I said the walleye fishing stinks??? Why not find the sentence where I said it's just not worth making the trip anymore because the walleye are gone?? Why not quote the sentence whetre I said the walleye fishing has gone to #### in a handbasket??? I'll tell you why, it doesn't exist! The majority of the information I've used to make my argument has been taken directly from the TFF Fishery Management Plan and my own personal experiences. Here's a quote from one of my earlier postings, "Hard not to be happy on the flowage, it's a beautiful place". I apologize for any business losses that may have resulted from such a comment.

I do want to see more, big walleye in the TFF. I'm sure that will just cripple the TFF economy. What was the economy like when the TFF was a "walleye sweatshop" before spearing? I seem to remember a few more resorts back then.

As a side note, your quote "he's only interested in what's good for the walleye population" seems a bit contradictory to my quote, "My true concern is the future of the TFF. I want to see a lake that provides a balanced fishery with the opportunity to catch big walleye".

Overall summary..... I always enjoy myself while on the TFF and can say with 100% certainty, it is my favorite place in the whole world. It was my grandpa's favorite place, it is my father's favorite place and I hope someday it will be my children's favorite place. Because of this, I have taken a greater interest in the TFF fishery as I have experienced it's changes over the past 30 years. It's still a great walleye fishery but I am concerned about the direction in which things are going. If something needs to be and can be done to help the walleye fishery I think it needs to be investigated.

Blue, I'm sure you're going to want to spout back with some comments disqualifying my argument telling me how I'm wrong again. That's fine. If you feel a need to have the last word, go ahead and take it. In all my years fishing the flowage I haven't come across a single person I didn't like, I don't need to change that now.

Good day!