Would someone just say it

Let me start by saying I accept the treaty because I know there is nothing I can do about it.

But here are some personal observations I have found to be shared by others that know the flowage.

Back in the 80s when I started fishing the TTF, I could find walleyes about anywhere. I only made 1 or 2 trips a year and was still successful. Now a decent walleye is scarce. Federal money is being used to study the effects of smallmouth feeding on the walleye and knocking reproduction numbers down. This story is in the Wisconsin Outdoor News, June 15,2013, page 5. Same issue, turn to page 8 and the headline reads "Chippewa tribes spear 32,000 walleyes".

Well Duh. My problem with this is that no one in the DNR or any elected official will come out and say the obvious. Sure there are issues in nature that will have some influence on population numbers. But 30 years of spearing has to have a very significant impact too. And a winter muskie spearing contest?

The Capital Times newspaper had an article written by another observer. This person's point, very simply, was that the creel count shows that sport fishing has not been impacted much by spearing. To me it says that if you can't catch a fish you are a lousy fisherman. Here is a sample with a link to the whole article.

“The better anglers are catching three, four or five,” says Mike Staggs, director of the DNR’s Bureau of Fisheries Management. “But most anglers only catch one (walleye) on a trip.”

Staggs’ observation is based on what are known as creel surveys.

The surveys are conducted at random times throughout walleye season – which runs from the first Saturday in May through the first Saturday in March. DNR staff visit lakes across the state to ask anglers the number and size of walleye they catch.

From 1990 to 2007, those surveys show:

In lakes with no minimum fish length regulations:

• 76 percent of anglers fishing for walleye were unsuccessful.
• Of the 24 percent of successful anglers, 13 percent caught only a single walleye, 5.4 percent caught two, and 5.5 percent caught the legal bag limit of three.
In lakes with a 15-inch minimum length regulation:

• 88.2 percent of anglers did not catch any walleye.

• Of the 11.8 percent that did, 8.8 percent caught a single walleye, 1.8 percent caught two walleyes, and 1.1 percent caught the legal limit of three.

In lakes with an 18-inch minimum length regulation:

• Anglers did not generally harvest more than a single walleye daily.

You read what you want into this. But I think Wisconsin should adopt rules closer to those of Canada's slot limits. They will tell you a 10 pound walleye will lay 10,000 eggs. Our walleye are apparently creating some huge smallmouth bass because it is obvious spearing has nothing to do with it.

I make no claims to being anything close to a biologist in knowledge. But I think I know a good size pile of bull when I see it.
Now talk amongst yourselves.



Read more: http://host.madison.com/news/local/w...#ixzz2RLQ58C5g

I think the indians and the smallmouth both are having a huge impact. The indians started spearing and this had a negative impact on the population. Smallmouth took advantage and started thriving. The two factors are what made the walleye fishing worse on a lot of the lakes.

Every old timer I talk to says that before spearing, guys didn't catch smallmouth with any frequency at all. Now it seems like the most common fish.


Either way, it sucks. I'd like to see the treaty thrown out, I think the indians abuse the right.

I'll agree with Flowage Bandit , prior to the spearing Walleye Fishing was very good , the average fish was larger too . Very few times you did not catch any Walleyes in the evening , etc. , now it more times then not . I don't remember catching any Smallmouth Bass prior to the 90's , never saw a Largemouth though I was told they are present . I do remember catching more ' stunted ' Northern's back then too . The scenery is the same ( minus large log jams and the number of visible stumps regardless of water level :>) ) , it's always good to be on the Flowage .

I've said this before. Back in the mid 80's my brother-in-law caught a 14.5 inch smallmouth and had it mounted! We started catching smallies (small ones)about 1990 which was just a couple of years after the start of spearing. That is too great a coincidence to be anything but cause and effect. I have a rock bar that all we ever caught on it were walleye...for decades only walleyes. About 10 years ago we started catching smallies there also, and now we have nights when all we catch are smallies. That's rare, but it has happened. This tells me that the abundance of smallies has had a tremendous effect on walleye habitat, feeding areas, and the actual feed itself.

Granted they are a fun fish to catch, but never-the-less, they have had a huge impact on the walleye population.

I have printed material from the DNR reflecting walleye populations from the mid 80's (before spearing). The number of walleyes swimming in the TFF today pales in comparison to the populations from back then.

What has changed? Take a wild guess.

Smallmouth don't taste as good as walleye, but there is nothing wrong with killing a few and having a fresh fish fry. I've done so in the past and will continue to do so at every opportunity. Too bad we can't harvest them before mid June. I know that when I go camping in May that we'd be eating a lot more fish if we had the opportunity to keep a few each day.

Makes a heck of a lot of sense that we give money to those who spear the walleye, and protect their biggest competitor (and predator of walleye fry).

A good friend says they make excellent food for the eagles too. One reason that I haven't tried it is because I'd rather eat them myself.

I have the solution to the problem.
Back when the tready was signed, the Tribe was still primitive. So let them spear all they want. But there are some conditions: Lets go back in time.
1) They have to use canoes, either dug out from a tree or leather. (No motors only paddles)
2) They have to use home made torches, using birtch bark and pine tar.(no 4,000,000 candle spot lights)
3) only wooden spears made from tree branches.
4) NO NETTING
5) No other forms of electricity or battery power
6) no guns

Couldn't agree more. But in my mind they'd completely get rid of the whole system, disband the BIA, and make the indians normal American citizens with no special rights. I'd let them keep some land as historical tribal BS land or whatever the hell they want to call it. But this crap of paying them to abuse the system needs to end.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flowage Bandit

Couldn't agree more. But in my mind they'd completely get rid of the whole system, disband the BIA, and make the indians normal American citizens with no special rights. I'd let them keep some land as historical tribal BS land or whatever the hell they want to call it. But this crap of paying them to abuse the system needs to end.

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Would be nice but the bleeding hearts would never let it happen.They say you can't fight city hall so why even waste your valuable time.Just go fish some of the lakes in Tenn or Arkansas and you'll forget all about the TFF.Year round open seasons and year round open water and great fishing and scenery with great fish and game dept's.That"s where I'm spending my Wisconsin state retirement.And yes the state door can hit me in the Azz all it wants.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dirty Oar

Let me start by saying I accept the treaty because I know there is nothing I can do about it.

But here are some personal observations I have found to be shared by others that know the flowage.

Back in the 80s when I started fishing the TTF, I could find walleyes about anywhere. I only made 1 or 2 trips a year and was still successful. Now a decent walleye is scarce. Federal money is being used to study the effects of smallmouth feeding on the walleye and knocking reproduction numbers down. This story is in the Wisconsin Outdoor News, June 15,2013, page 5. Same issue, turn to page 8 and the headline reads "Chippewa tribes spear 32,000 walleyes".

Well Duh. My problem with this is that no one in the DNR or any elected official will come out and say the obvious. Sure there are issues in nature that will have some influence on population numbers. But 30 years of spearing has to have a very significant impact too. And a winter muskie spearing contest?

The Capital Times newspaper had an article written by another observer. This person's point, very simply, was that the creel count shows that sport fishing has not been impacted much by spearing. To me it says that if you can't catch a fish you are a lousy fisherman. Here is a sample with a link to the whole article.

“The better anglers are catching three, four or five,” says Mike Staggs, director of the DNR’s Bureau of Fisheries Management. “But most anglers only catch one (walleye) on a trip.”

Staggs’ observation is based on what are known as creel surveys.

The surveys are conducted at random times throughout walleye season – which runs from the first Saturday in May through the first Saturday in March. DNR staff visit lakes across the state to ask anglers the number and size of walleye they catch.

From 1990 to 2007, those surveys show:

In lakes with no minimum fish length regulations:

• 76 percent of anglers fishing for walleye were unsuccessful.
• Of the 24 percent of successful anglers, 13 percent caught only a single walleye, 5.4 percent caught two, and 5.5 percent caught the legal bag limit of three.
In lakes with a 15-inch minimum length regulation:

• 88.2 percent of anglers did not catch any walleye.

• Of the 11.8 percent that did, 8.8 percent caught a single walleye, 1.8 percent caught two walleyes, and 1.1 percent caught the legal limit of three.

In lakes with an 18-inch minimum length regulation:

• Anglers did not generally harvest more than a single walleye daily.

You read what you want into this. But I think Wisconsin should adopt rules closer to those of Canada's slot limits. They will tell you a 10 pound walleye will lay 10,000 eggs. Our walleye are apparently creating some huge smallmouth bass because it is obvious spearing has nothing to do with it.

I make no claims to being anything close to a biologist in knowledge. But I think I know a good size pile of bull when I see it.
Now talk amongst yourselves.



Read more: http://host.madison.com/news/local/w...#ixzz2RLQ58C5g

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I lived on a lake in Boulder Junction from the mid 80's till 2006 when I sold in that crazy housing boom that was speared heavy every year and I can tell you the walleye fishing went to poop.When I first moved there any evening I could always get some walleyes and many times a 5 fish limit but by the time I sold it was hit or miss and very rare to get a 2 or 3 fish limit.I hear this same story all across northern Wis. from people that live on these lakes and know good places to fish and have the time to fish peak times and still poor results most of the time.Ya first ice worked ok most years but we all know that is a peak time.Also let me say that fishing pressure also went way down with the poor results so if spearing isn't it and clearly it wasn't fishing pressure what is it.Alll I can say is at least the house was a great investment.Good luck

Here's the reg...

Turtle/Flambeau Flowage: There is no minimum length limit on walleye. After June 14,
the minimum length limit on largemouth and smallmouth bass is 15" with a daily bag limit
of 2.

The daily bag limit for Smallies is the same as it is for Walleyes. What I would like to know is the ratio of caught and released to caught and killed for both species. If most folks are releasing the smallies, then the actual bag limit is less than 2 per day. So, that 15 or 16 inch walleye gets caught, kept and taken out of the population. The 15 or 16 inch Smallie gets caught and released back into the population. In addition, no protection for walleyes by season or size. Not the case for Smallies. This has to have an affect.

I wish there were more walleye with the rest of you, but I find smallmouth delicious. In fact, I like them better than walleye. I throw a lot back but I keep my share as well. When I hear people are killing smallmouth and leaving them for the eagles, I find that disturbing. Do you know how many people would love to have the level of smallmouth fishing we are blessed with? The bottom line is that smallmouth are different fish than walleye, spawn at different times, have different habitat preferences often and different temperature preferences than walleye. I find it hard to believe they are to blame for less walleye out there. Here's something to consider; look at what fish locators and trolling motors can do today. The technology is amazing. People can zone right in on a spot now with ease, and there are a lot of talented fishermen out there.

It really is quite the bummer we cant keep smallies before June 15th or whatever the date is. Smallmouth are delicious to say the least, meat is just as white as walleye, theyre just a lot thicker filets. So good.

those are some really good points,but we need more structure like the log jams that no longer exist. and cribs really is not the answer .and when you speak about eagle food with smallmouths it is the same for the jack northerns. and we don't really catch the jumbo perch anymore . they should put a size limit on the flowage it would be hard hard for 2 or 3 years but it will pay off